April 9, 2008

Pick of The Fringe at Downstage

e. v         posted 25 Mar 2008, 09:56 PM / edited 31 Mar 2008, 06:56 PM

PICK OF THE FRINGE at DOWNSTAGE 6 – 10 MAY

March of the Meeklings 7 – 8 pm

Sensible Susan and the Queen’s Merkin  8.15 – 9.15 pm

2b or nt 2b 9.30 – 10.30 pm

Tickets for each show are just $20. To see all three shows, the cost is $50.

Great! I remember some people were disappointed at missing “2b or nt 2b” during the fringe. I think $20 per show is a bit steep though but that could just be me.

neil furby             posted 30 Mar 2008, 01:35 PM / edited 30 Mar 2008, 01:38 PM

Yes I agree e.v. $20 per show” seems is a bit steep ” but I suppose the total cost of $60 for an evening of three hours of theatre is not that unreasonable. So what’s it to be or not to be baby cakes pay up or meekly march away!

Michael Wray    posted 30 Mar 2008, 02:08 PM / edited 30 Mar 2008, 02:09 PM

$50 for a whole evening, Neil:

Tickets for each show are just $20 or just $50 for all shows.

By the way, the arrangements for Babycakes have fallen through, so Sensible Susan and the Queen’s Merkin is taking its place.

Barnaby Fredric                posted 30 Mar 2008, 10:49 PM

That was clever Neil! You incorporated all of the names of the different shows into a sentence commenting on the pricing!

Thanks for that Neil Furby. Furby……remember Furbies? Those toys that looked like small domes of fluff with beaks? They talked too – said things like : “Me hungry!”

Neil, you have brought back a lot of memories. Memories I would have liked to forget.

I forgive you Neil.

e. v         posted 30 Mar 2008, 10:52 PM

Duly edited Michael 🙂

John Smythe      posted 31 Mar 2008, 09:16 AM 

On the question of $20 per show or $50 for all three, it’s worth remembering these are the picks of the Fringe: shows that have claimed status and attention amid a welter of works.

With this endorsement, and multiple reviews just a click away on this site (enter the name of the play in the Search field and click ‘go’), you no longer face the risk of being bitten by a ‘dog’ that normally come with the Fringe.

Besides, Downstage is a professional operation. The people running the space get paid. It costs significant money to open it on any given night. And I trust each company is being treated as professionals too.

Zia Lopez             posted 31 Mar 2008, 10:18 AM

“Besides, Downstage is a professional operation.” (And BATS isn’t? Tell that to the Chapman Tripps) ” The people running the space get paid.” (And the BATS staff don’t?) ” It costs significant money to open it on any given night.” (same) “And I trust each company is being treated as professionals too.” Excuse me – but does this all not also apply to BATS? The only significant difference is that unlike Downstage, BATS is actually a functioning, healthy, fully operational successful, exciting, risk-taking, welcoming, affordable, non-snobby theatre, with none of Downstage’s monotonous history of serious mismanagement leading to regular collapse. Downstage should be grateful that this great fringe talent have agreed to use their poxy stage and help them out of the bind they’re in.

Jackson B Bridge               posted 31 Mar 2008, 11:03 AM

Oh please do expose yourself, Zia, and make our day by telling us you have not only taken part in the recent industry consultations on the future of Downstage, but you have offered your ineffable wisdom and expertise to the Board and they are about to appoint you as its saviour. Or could it be that you have already been there and done that? Either way, your passion and energy is dreadfully wasted just spitting your venom here.

Zia Lopez             posted 31 Mar 2008, 11:32 AM

All wrong, Jackson, I’m just a BATS fan who’s sick of hearing Downstage loyalists being patronising. And excuse me, but where’s the venom? This is called ‘opinion’. This is my ‘opinion’, Jackson, lightly and informally offered. If you disagree with it I’m happy to discuss.

Simon Bennett posted 31 Mar 2008, 12:06 PM

Zia is correct in that all John’s comments about the ‘professionalism’ of Downstage, apply equally to BATS. Obviously the overheads associated with the Hannah Playhouse are likely to be higher than BATS’. But that’s the only difference I can see.

Aaron Alexander              posted 31 Mar 2008, 12:58 PM

Aside from the comment about ‘all the companies being treated as professionals’, which I took to mean ‘being paid a wage’.

Zia Lopez             posted 31 Mar 2008, 02:37 PM

So – Circa isn’t a professional theatre then?

John Smythe      posted 31 Mar 2008, 02:52 PM

Let’s not be adversarial, Zia. I had no intention of diminishing the professional status of BATS staff. (And in response to you last, of course Circa is professional too but Aaron is right: of the Wellington theatres – not including the national ones like Taki Rua and Capital E – Downstage is the only one that pays wages across the board.)

I’m not privy to the figures but I suspect the pay rates and overheads at Downstage are higher, plus FOH and bar staff get paid too, and I most certainly hope the return to the creators and performers of the ‘Pick of the Fringe’ shows will be significantly higher, whatever their arrangements are. Hence my acceptance of the questioned ticket prices – which one hopes will not be a barrier to a whole new group of salaried theatregoers who may not habitually go to BATS.

I assume your “I’m just a BATS fan who’s sick of hearing Downstage loyalists being patronising,” Zia, is a snipe at me. Need I say how “sick” I am of feeling forced to defend myself against your skewed-view postings, Zia, especially when it feels like repeating myself. But anyway …

The record could well be seen as proof that I personally am a BATS, Circa and Fringe “loyalist” too, not to mention all the other activity I attempt to ensure we cover … But in fact I’m a live theatre fan and I see the professional theatre community, nation-wide, as one cohesive body whose vital organs are kept healthy by all who course through its systems.

The survival and revitalisation of Downstage will contribute to the continued health of the whole body and it’s up to us all to make that happen. I make no apology whatever for supporting that process and wanting an outcome that best serves the growth and development of New Zealand theatre. And none of that support should be seen as in any way diminishing the value of any other part of the ‘body’.  

PS: As we ‘speak’ something appears to be afoot regarding all this and I hope to bring news to this site very soon.

Michael Wray    posted 31 Mar 2008, 03:04 PM

I’m just a BATS fan who’s sick of hearing Downstage loyalists being patronising…”

I haven’t noticed any such activity, but perhaps I just prefer not to assume the worst interpretation possible from any given posting.

I’m a BATS fan, a Downstage fan, a Circa fan. I don’t see these as mutually exclusive. Quite the opposite.

e. v         posted 31 Mar 2008, 03:09 PM

looks like “zia lopez” chose and is choosing to be offended and read too much into comments.

Zia Lopez             posted 31 Mar 2008, 06:33 PM

To return to my point, I find it genuinely interesting that Aaron seems to feel that if actors are paid a ‘wage’, this somehow makes them more ‘professional’ than if they got their cash via a cooperative share system (as at Circa and BATS).

e. v         posted 31 Mar 2008, 06:54 PM / edited 31 Mar 2008, 09:02 PM

(Correct me if I’m wrong) but I’m pretty sure Aaron meant professional in the (one) definition of the word which is..

“…engaged in a profession or engaging in as a profession or means of livelihood; “the professional man or woman possesses distinctive qualifications”; “began her professional career after the Olympics”; “professional theater”; “professional football”; “a professional cook”; “professional actors and athletes”  which is a common interpretation of the word as far as I know (though it can also mean “Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.”)

Zia you, so far, seem to be the only one who is reading far into comments on this topic. No one else has become mortally offended about what you thought was said. No one has jumped to that conclusion. Could we not assume that you are a rabid Bat’s loyalist, what with your random rantings about “poxy stage’s” and the like?

Ms Katurian        posted 31 Mar 2008, 09:20 PM

I’m no ‘Zia’ supporter, necessarily, (as my previous posts would show), but e.v., there’s a good underlying point (and a much bigger issue at stake) in Zia’s aggressiveness.  It may seem like an overreaction in context but it’s part of a wider argument.

It’s shown up in your own post: the ‘Olympics’ amateur/professional distinction is a fairly confused one at best, surely?  Whether you make your means of living (your ‘profession’) from theatre work, and whether your theatre work should be considered ‘professional’ in approach, and indeed quality, are not necessarily the same thing at all.  More to the point, the idea that Fringe work is so hit-and-miss, and self-styled ‘professional theatre’ is so  incredibly reliable, is rather arguable.  It’s especially complicated when Wellington’s so-called ‘professional theatres’ were set up by people who under the definitions commonly offered, were originally from something resembling a more ‘amateur’ background.  Which is to say, that while it is desirable that people should be adequately rewarded for their time, there is plenty of ‘professional’ work being created by people that might not make any money for it, in real terms, at all, and that ‘professional’ is a pretty elastic concept when it comes to artistic work.

Aaron Alexander              posted 31 Mar 2008, 10:17 PM / edited 31 Mar 2008, 10:33 PM

Semantics : Last refuge of the wrong.

:sigh:

Actors make a distinction between co-op theatre, where you are in business together, and professional theatre where you are hired by someone else’s business. it has nothing to do with the quality or otherwise of the work, simply the employment conditions.

Zia, I’m sure you are fully aware that this was the point I was making, but are pretending ignorance because it suits your argument.

Don’t put words in my mouth. Thanks.

John Smythe      posted 31 Mar 2008, 10:31 PM

I wrestle with this when trying to determine what Theatreview should cover, or not. For me ‘professionals’ are those for whom theatre is a vocation (rather than a hobby).

e. v         posted 31 Mar 2008, 10:47 PM / edited 9 Apr 2008, 04:09 PM

you’re right ms katurian. her aggressiveness in the context of this post is over the top. i get a whiff of  trolling too as all she/he seems to do is stick their head in, say something provocative and then duck out again.

Richard Grevers                posted 1 Apr 2008, 02:51 PM

To get back to the point, If Downstage has committed to pay these actors wages, then Downstage is taking the risk on the production. I’m guessing that there is little or no funding available for this “best-of” season, so the management of Downstage has to meet those costs from box office, setting a price that affords Downstage a realistic breakeven but without being unaffordable. If they don’t do the first, they are answerable to their board and ultimately to CNZ as any shortfall would eat into their bulk funding reserves. As to professionalism, I spent the last 3 years of my theatre career largely designing and operating lights for plays in an “amateur” theatre, because being a 420-seat house, they paid their mechanist and technician. Was my work “non-professional” because the actors were unpaid and of variable quality? (Some, such as Aaron, flitted between this and professional shows) – I think not.

Aaron Alexander              posted 1 Apr 2008, 03:28 PM

The other punt that Downstage are taking are that there are sufficient people left interested in these shows that didn’t see them first time around.

Richard Grevers                posted 1 Apr 2008, 04:24 PM

Most of the shows seemed to play only 3 or 4 gigs in a 100 seat venue, so that’s not too great a risk, Aaron 🙂

Markus Stitz       posted 9 Apr 2008, 03:06 PM / edited 9 Apr 2008, 04:52 PM

Hi there, just to correct the times of the shows:

March of The Meeklings: An Apocalyptic Romp 6.30-7.30 pm

Sensible Susan and the Queen’s Merkin 8.00 – 9.00 pm

2b or nt 2b? 9.30 – 10.30 pm (in the theatre bar)

6-10 May, Downstage Theatre, www.downstage.co.nz

Tickets are $20 for each show or a pass for all three shows costs only $50 (performances can be watched on different dates)

Thanks,

Markus